Welcome to my blog The Writer’s Journey where, among other things, you will find my monthly People Who Make Books Happen Interview Series and writing advice for writers and teachers of writing.
Welcome to my blog The Writer’s Journey where, among other things, you will find my monthly People Who Make Books Happen Interview Series and writing advice for writers and teachers of writing.
Come to the Spice Monkey Restaurant in Oakland this Saturday July 11th, and hear Mary Mackey read her most beastly poems as part of Oakland’s 4th Annual Beast Crawl Literary Festival. With novelist/non-fiction writer Miah Jeffra, and poets Kirk Lumpkin, and Maw Shein Win. Curated by Leila Rae, publisher/editor Pandemonium Press. Book and Broadside Giveaway Table. Book Table. Theme: The Unrestrained Beast. TIME: 6:30 pm to 7:30 pm. PLACE: The Loft at the Spice Monkey Restaurant and Bar, 1628 Webster Street, Oakland (at 17th St, 2 1/2 blocks from the 19th Street BART). This event is free and open to the public.
Mary Mackey: Welcome to People Who Make Books Happen, Elizabeth. It’s a pleasure to have you here to talk about online Creative Writing classes, a topic that’s of increasing interest to anyone who is teaching creative writing or considering taking a creative writing class. Could you please start by telling us about your background? For example, how long have you been teaching creative writing online?
Elizabeth Stark: I actually taught an online memoir class for the New York Gotham Writers Workshop around 1999/2000. Online teaching was not a familiar format at the time, and the course was conducted without video or audio—just posting. It turned out to be powerfully moving and surprisingly intimate. The group was very diverse. We had a WWII vet and a teenager, and we all felt that learning this way flipped the anonymity of New York City inside out. Seven years ago when I started coaching and editing writers again after my kids were born, my partner Angie set me up online, and she and I been evolving our course as the technology evolves But that surprising intimacy remains.
Mary: What on-line creative writing courses are you currently teaching?
Elizabeth: This term I am teaching a Book-in-a-Year course where students are writing all the key scenes in the structure of a story—for memoir or fiction–using published models such as The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao and Americanah, and memoirs such as Wild.
I also just wrapped up a year-long revision course called Book Launch: Revision where we read one person’s entire manuscript each month and met via video to discuss it at length. This structure creates a powerful community of readers and writers.
Mary: What do you have coming up in the future?
Elizabeth: I’ll be starting another Book Launch: Revision course in the fall which will be a workshop for entire manuscripts. I’ll also be teaching another Writing Studio where students actually write in class.
Mary: Have you ever taught creative courses in a face-to-face setting?
Elizabeth: I have taught at colleges and universities and in living rooms and coffee shops. I love this kind of teaching, too—but the two forms of teaching are less different than you’d think. Right now, I drive weekly to Berkeley to teach an ongoing class whose students are very attached (as am I) to our in-person meetings.
Mary: What advantages are there to teaching online vs teaching face-to-face?
Elizabeth: Online classes allow people to enroll who would otherwise not be able to work with me because they live far away or have young children in the home or for some other reason. Teaching online also cuts out the commute for everyone. You are getting direct support, inspiration and mentorship right at your writing desk. How dreamy is that? You open to the blank page, and there is a published author calling you by name and telling you that you can do this. I think it is important for students to feel part of a community of fellow writers who want them to succeed. I am able to record each and every class, so if students have to miss, they can make it up. That’s something that at present real time face-to-face teaching can’t offer.
Mary: What disadvantages are there to teaching online courses?
Elizabeth: With the current technology—and I know it’s changing all the time—there isn’t a way to pair people up to read to each other or do other small group exercises. And there isn’t the same chance for before- and after-class socializing. In my classes, I try to address this by encouraging online conversations outside of class. My students get to know one another, sometimes traveling long distances to meet in person.
Mary: What technologies do you use to teach your online courses?
Elizabeth: Currently we use Google Hangouts, Facebook, our own web site and email.
Mary: What happens in an on-line creative writing course? What should students expect?
Elizabeth: It’s pretty similar to face-to-face in that everybody can see everybody else. Whoever is speaking pops up on the big screen, and the rest of us appear in little Brady-Bunch squares below. Individuals may always mute themselves so we cannot hear if kids are crying or phones are ringing. They can even turn off the camera. In short, there’s a lot of flexibility.
In my classes, we start with a check in and a short, focused coaching session for each writer. So many issues overlap: finding time to write, making decisions about the structure of a scene or a whole book, tackling revision, finding the heart and time to submit. We celebrate rejections, because the students most successfully published are often those with the most rejections to report. Rejection means you are on the path to getting published.
Mary: What happens in your craft classes?
Elizabeth In the craft classes after check in, we write using as inspiration examples I cull from a wide range of published work. Everyone has the chance to read what they have written aloud and receive encouragement and direction. Students often post their praise of each other in the course “chat section.”
Mary: How about Workshop classes? What happens in them?
Elizabeth: An online Workshop class functions much as it does in person. It is a a casual but rigorous conversation about the manuscript at hand, which we’ve all read carefully ahead of time. We start with praise and end with praise. Over the years, my students and I have noticed that the writer can forget the work has any redeeming value if the constructive criticism isn’t accompanied by a specific reminder of what works. The writer waits to speak until the end.
Later, we’ll each email our notes to the writer. I email my notes to everyone, as there is much to be gained from seeing the detailed edit of a work you’ve read closely. I also create a checklist of lessons that students can apply to their own writing, because it’s often easier to see these lessons when they are taken from another person’s manuscript rather than one’s own.
We conclude all our classes by setting public writing goals to spur us on. I keep my online classes very small and participatory. Six students, eight students. They run like seminars.
Mary: What do you enjoy most about teaching these online creative writing classes?
Elizabeth: I love the quality of students who’ve been drawn to them. They are almost invariably really talented, serious writers who are also warm, mutually supportive, and encouraging. The conversations are smart and invigorating. Personally, I love the community that we’ve all built together.
Mary: Do you think online classes will ever replace face-to-face classes? Should they?
Elizabeth: In the not too distant past, there was a big panic about e-books replacing print, and that seems to be leveling off. This is not an exact parallel, but I do think that e-learning and in-person learning can and should co-exist. It’s wonderful to be in a room full of writers, but it can be a miracle to look up from childcare, house-cleaning, a desk job or just the isolation of the page, and find a row of smiling faces waiting in your computer to discuss your work, cheer you on, and urge you to write.
Mary: What tips can you give someone who is planning to teach creative writing online? For example, is there an ideal class size?
Elizabeth: I prefer small class sizes because I want to hear from everybody, every time. From a sheer business/ profit stand point, this may not be the most effective model, but I am first a reader, a writer and a teacher, and the intimacy and connection forged in a small class is invaluable. An online platform can serve as a lecture hall as easily as it can serve as a close circle, but personal accountability and a chance to know one another individually helps us all stay on track.
That said, one could teach through Google Hangouts and YouTube to a very wide audience. For example, Angie and I are launching a podcast that we record through Google Hangouts with an audience of our students watching on YouTube, and they love that, too. There are many possibilities.
Mary: What should a student look for when considering an online creative writing course?
Elizabeth: My big concern about online teaching is that a lot of the teachers are no more qualified than their students to be at the helm of the class. Look for teachers who have publications and degrees. Then look to the student community—do they love the world of the online course? Are they finding success and creative productivity and joy? My own students are writing strong work and publishing it. I find that tremendously exciting, because it means that what we are doing together is working.
Mary: I know you do both videos and podcasts of your classes. Could you please leave us with some urls so we can take a look at them?
Elizabeth: At present the videos of most of the classes are only for the current students, but the podcast of conversations with writers and other story creatives and industry professionals will be available after June 15. I’ll give you the link to update then if I may. I also offer a free course on professionally editing your own work, called Fearless and Finished, which is available at http://BookWritingWorld.com. And if you get on my mailing list, I’ll send you inspiration, tips and other information about free courses. Finally, Angie and I will be launching a more independent Book-in-a-Year online course later this year.
Mary: Thank you for telling all of this valuable information, Elizabeth.
Elizabeth: Thank you so much, Mary! You are wonderful!!
Elizabeth Stark (aka Elizabeth Stark Powers) is the author of the novel Shy Girl (FSG, Seal Press) and co-director and co-writer of several short films, including FtF: Female to Femme and Little Mutinies (both distributed by Frameline Film Distribution). She has an M.F.A. from Columbia University in Creative Writing. Currently the lead coach and teacher at the Book Writing World, she’s taught writing and literature at UCSC, Pratt Institute, the Peralta Colleges and Hobart & William Smith Colleges. In fall 2010, she was the Distinguished Fiction Writer at St. Mary’s College in Orinda. She ’ s developing an online course to complete a masterfully crafted book in a year at http://BookinaYear.com
For writing advice; course syllabi; resources for Women’s Studies, Women’s Visionary Fiction, Women’s Visionary Film, Women’s Visionary Poetry, and Advanced Composition and more free information about writing and teaching, you are invited to visit my Educators Page.
Mary: Welcome to People Who Make Books Happen, Pamela. Could you please start by telling us how you decided to write about Shakespeare? What led you to choose him as a subject for historical fiction?
Pamela: I have always, always loved Shakespeare, loved the plays, loved the language. In the end though, I wrote my book of Shakespeare short stories, Her Infinite Variety, in reaction to the movie Shakespeare in Love. That movie spawned a bit of a Shakespeare trend in fiction. But I wanted to challenge the way his wife Anne is dismissed with a line or two in that screenplay and in most people’s minds. There are so many misconceptions, beginning with the idea that she was an aging spinster he married for her property and because he got her pregnant. But when she married William Shakespeare she was the 26-year-old, well-thought-of daughter of an important local family. I got interested in all the women who surrounded Shakespeare and who appear in his plays, and went from there. I found out amazing things. There is a lot of very rich stuff about his relationships you don’t even have to make up.
Mary: Please tell us what you’ve written about Shakespeare.
Pamela: Among other things, I wrote Her Infinite Variety: Stories of Shakespeare and the Women He Loved.
This is a collection of short stories, each of which is written about or from the point of view of a female character in one of his plays or a woman who was actually involved in Shakespeare’s life. I wanted to try to tell their untold stories, especially the stories of the ones who are passive or voiceless or vilified. What was going on in Ophelia’s head? How does Juliet’s mother feel about what happens to her daughter? What’s Lady Macbeth’s side of the story? Why did Shakespeare’s daughter Judith marry such a cad? What kind of mother was Mary Shakespeare, and why?
Mary: What kind of research do you have to do to write about Shakespeare? Do you enjoy doing this research?
Pamela: I actually had a reasonable working knowledge of the Tudor period just because I was always interested in it. But when I started to dig around for details in Shakespeare’s life and plays, I found there was a rich vein to be mined. The documented facts about Shakespeare that we know about are few, although every now and then something new turns up.
My favorite part was discovering little jewels that I could spin into a story. For example, about a hundred and fifty years ago someone found the legal record of the incident that was the spark for my story “Mary Mountjoy’s Dowry.” Shakespeare, it seems, was the go-between in getting the daughter of the family he was lodging with in London married. The bridegroom sued the family for the money he was promised, and Shakespeare had to testify. So I thought about what family and interpersonal dynamics might have been going on there, especially between Shakespeare and that young woman. Then there are things about him that didn’t make it into my stories, at least not yet. For example, after Shakespeare’s death his daughter Susanna sued someone for slander because he had said she had a sexually transmitted disease. She won.
Mary: What other historical novels about Shakespeare would you recommend? What do you like most about these novels?
Pamela: I haven’t yet found anything that really grabs me. Maybe that’s why I’m writing about Shakespeare again, for myself, because I haven’t yet found the novel that’s perfect for me. But there are some new ones out there that I want to give a try. As soon as I get some time, I want to read Dark Aemilia, by Sally O’Reilly, which puts a magical spin on one of the possible candidates for Shakespeare’s Dark Lady, the poet Aemilia Bassano. And Mary Sharratt, who is such a terrific writer, is also coming out with a historical novel about Shakespeare and Aemilia called The Dark Lady’s Mask, which I’m looking forward to. There’s a lot of genre mystery and romance out there now. And there’s a type of story that uses Shakespeare’s life and work as a jumping off point, like the science fiction novel Station Eleven, or contemporary novels like The Tragedy of Arthur by Arthur Phillips, or The Weird Sisters by Eleanor Brown. Neil Gaiman depicts Shakespeare and his wife in Sandman. I even saw a Dr. Who episode about him.
I guess it’s only natural that writers would be drawn to exploring the psyche of this man who is often called “the greatest writer who ever lived.” Everyone has their own take on him – charming and confident, tormented and guilty, whatever.
Mary: I understand that you’re working on a novel about Shakespeare right now. This is exciting news. Can you give us a little sneak peek at it without giving too much away?
Pamela: There’s a tradition, with some possible evidence, that Shakespeare served as a schoolmaster “in the country,” in his youth. In the novel I’m working on, he has to flee home as a teenager to go be a tutor in a great house in Lancashire. Adventures follow. I’ll leave it at that.
Mary: Traditionally, all English majors are required to take a course in Shakespeare. Do you think he’s still relevant?
Pamela: Oh, absolutely. His psychological insight, his understanding of human motivation, his fully formed characters – all those things are timeless. That said, it’s important to remember that not everything he wrote was Hamlet or King Lear. He had his early clunkers, too. Even Shakespeare had to develop and mature as a writer. Which is so interesting and cool. I understand that the language puts some people off. I say, just relax and read it to yourself in a conversational tone, and see what shines through.
For example, really read the “To be or not to be” soliloquy all the way through and appreciate how many of the lines have become part of our lexicon. No other writer of his time wrote so prolifically or wrote so many stories with such variety and such memorable language. And believe me, no Elizabethan playwright or poet, not Christopher Marlowe, not Ben Jonson, nobody, even comes close to writing women like Shakespeare did! Not the sheer number of characters, not their complexity, and not their variety.
Mary: Thank you, Pamela. It’s always a pleasure to talk to you. I’m looking forward to learning more about Shakespeare when your novel is published.
Pamela Berkman’s two short story collections were published by Simon & Schuster. The title story of The Falling Nun was nominated for a Pushcart Prize, and Her Infinite Variety: Stories of Shakespeare and the Women He Loved made the San Francisco Chronicle bestseller list. Her short story “Duty,” about Juliet Capulet’s mother from Romeo and Juliet, appears in Houghton Mifflin Harcourt’s high school textbook Collections. Pam holds an MFA in creative writing from Warren Wilson College and worked as a reporter before settling into publishing, where she is now a production manager. She lives in the San Francisco Bay Area with her husband and two young Tasmanian devils – er, sons.
Join this People Who Make Books Happen conversation with Pamela Berkman. You are warmly invited to leave a comment.
For writing advice; course syllabi in various subjects; resources for Women’s Studies, Women’s Visionary Fiction, Women’s Visionary Film, Women’s Visionary Poetry, and Advanced Composition and more information about writing and teaching for students and educators, you are invited to visit my Educators Page.
In March Knopf published Marge Piercy’s nineteenth collection of poetry Made In Detroit. Knopf has also recently published the paperback edition of her eighteenth poetry collection The Hunger Moon. Piercy’s poetry has been anthologized over a hundred times. She has written seventeen novels, most recently Sex Wars. PM press has republished Dance The Eagle To Sleep, Vida, and Braided Lives with new introductions. Last May, PM Press published her first short story collection The Cost of Lunch, Etc. The paperback edition of The Cost of Lunch, Etc. will arrive this September with two new stories and an introduction. Meanwhile, her memoir Sleeping With Cats is out from Harper Perennial. Piercy’s work has been translated into nineteen languages. She has given readings, speeches, and workshops in over 470 venues in the U.S. and abroad. She invites you to visit her website at http://margepiercy.com
Mary: Welcome to People Who Make Books Happen, Marge. In January PM Press published your debut collection of short stories The Cost of Lunch, Etc. This month, Knopf is publishing your new collection of poetry Made In Detroit. You’re one of the few American writers I know who excels in writing both poetry and fiction. Could you please start by telling us how, in your experience, the process of creating a poem differs from the process of creating a novel or a short story.
Marge Piercy: Actually I’m not one of the few writers who write both poetry and fiction. There are a number of women writers who work in multiple genres. Adrienne Rich wrote both nonfiction and poetry; May Sarton wrote memoir and poetry; Muriel Rukeyser wrote poetry and biography; Maxine Kumin wrote poetry and fiction; Laura Kasischke, poetry and fiction; Maya Angelou, many genres; Denise Levertov, criticism and poetry; Alice Walker, poetry, fiction, essays. Jane Friedman has written essays and poetry; Margaret Atwood, poetry and fiction; Audre Lorde, memoir and poetry; Sylvia Plath, poetry and fiction; Erica Jong, poetry and fiction; Susan Griffin, poetry and nonfiction. And on and on. It’s relatively common for women to work in more than one genre. You’ve done the same.
Poems start from an image, a phrase, an idea, a vision. But novels start with theme and character. You can’t mistake one for the other any more than you could fail to distinguish between an elephant and a hummingbird. Short stories have a narrower focus than novels. Everything put in has to work toward the common goal of that story. In a short story, everything has to count, whereas in a novel, digressions, the development of minor characters and meanderings of plot are acceptable and may add to the charm. In poetry every word has to count; in short stories, everything put into it has to work for the story.
Mary: Does the initial inspiration come to you in different ways?
Marge Piercy: Sure. A novel often comes out of an idea, a theme, a subject I’ve been mulling over for years. Then something happens in the world or in my head that begins to flesh it out. Poems are more immediate, at least in their beginnings. Anything can be the spark that starts the engine of a poem. A poem can come from looking out the window, having a conversation or an argument with a friend, a break-up, a death of a friend or a stranger, a demand from my cat, the morning news, a meeting, a hawk landing on a nearby bush, the scent of a flower, rain after a drought.
Mary: What influence have your political and religious beliefs had on your prose and your poetry?
Marge Piercy: To me it’s all of a piece. There’s no difference between writing a poem about lost love or tulips than writing a poem about the War in Afghanistan or women’s right to choose. The poem has to work as a poem. A lot of political poetry doesn’t feeling fully felt or fully intelligent. It’s too often concerned with being politically correct.
Writing liturgy is different from anything else. I was one of a group of mostly rabbis who produced the Reconstructionist Shabbat Morning Siddur or Or Chadash. Instead of a striking or surreal or even shocking imagery, you want imagery and language that is powerful and often with strong rhythm but that works for a group to say aloud. It also has to fit into the traditional place in the service or the siddur and do what it required in that place. Some of my liturgy is widely used in Reconstructionist and Reform synagogues and havurot here and in Liberal prayerbooks in Great Britain.
Mary: Your forthcoming collection of poetry is entitled Made In Detroit. You were born in Detroit and attended The University of Michigan. Do you feel that your poetry is in general more personal and autobiographical than your prose?
Marge Piercy: Sure. In novels I’m often concerned with the road not taken, the choices people make in their lives in a particular period and particular socio-economic and political situation. I like to explore how choices work out through time. Fiction to me is about time. the vectors that act on someone in a particular place and time. I wrote one semi-autobiographical novel, Braided Lives, but there’s a lot of different between that and my memoir Sleeping With Cats.. I tried to be as honest as I could about myself in the memoir; there are no such restraints in Braided Lives.
Poems come out of everyday as often as they come from memory – which after all is experienced in and influenced [or distorted] by the present. They may come out of my own life or what I observe of others. They may come from watching the news or reading a newspaper. They may come out of a sign viewed glancingly while traveling by car. They may come out of something good or horrible happening to a friend. I don’t really divide my poetry into poems about me and poems about everything else.
Mary: Please tell us more about Made In Detroit.
Marge Piercy: Among other attributes, it’s the most striking of all my books. The cover is amazing. It’s a photograph by Lori Nix, whose work I much admire. She and her partner create surreal dioramas and she photographs them.
The first section is about growing up in Detroit as it was then and in my family and what has become of that city. The second section, Ignorance bigger than the moon, goes through a year and my interactions with nature. The third, The poor are no longer with us, contains political poems. The fourth, Working at it, is comprised of my poems relating to Judaism. The fifth, That was Cobb Farm, are poems mainly of observation of our lives, some narrative. The last section, Looking back in utter confusion, consists of ruminations on my loves, my marriage, my body, friendships, cats, mortality. Like the first section, it’s quite autobiographical.
I feel Made in Detroit is a very strong collection of the best of my poetry of last several years. Of course there are some funny poems, like “Let’s eat in a restaurant” about how fussy Americans have become about food.
Mary: The short stories in The Cost of Lunch, Etc. are wonderfully conceived and beautifully crafted. What prompted you to write short stories? Have you been writing them all along and not publishing them, or is this a new form for you?
Marge Piercy: When I started writing seriously after college, I wrote short stories as well as novels. But when my novels finally began to be published, serious novels in those days could be lucrative. I needed to support myself so I wrote only novels for decades. But serious novels generally don’t pay much these days for all the work that goes into them, two or three years minimum; and at my age, New York editors aren’t interested in me or my work. Therefore, I’ve returned to my earlier love: the short story. I can easily get my stories as well as my poetry published and out to people. Short stories perform far better than pieces of novels. Some of the stories in Lunch are ones initially written many many year ago, although most of them have been revised or entirely rewritten. Most of the stories are new, ones I’ve written in the past few years. I’ve found I really enjoy writing short fiction and I intend to go on doing so.
Mary: You and your husband, the novelist and essayist Ira Wood, have written an excellent guide for aspiring writers entitled So You Want To Write: How To Master The Craft of Writing Fiction and the Personal Narrative. What is the single most important thing anyone who wants to be a serious writer should know?
Marge Piercy: If you want to write short stories, read short stories. Don’t read a book about writing short stories. Of course I exclude our book, which everyone should read, obviously! But do you want your appendix taken out by someone who studied The Way of the Surgeon or somebody who studied medicine and has taken out as many appendices as possible?
If you want to write science or fantasy fiction, read in that genre. Don’t try to invent the wheel. Learn how people in the genre that interests you have solved problems – or haven’t. Sometimes you learn as much from books that have failed as from those that wow you. Learn to read like writer, meaning observing as you go how those writers use dialogue, how they pace, how they characterize, how they indicate time, etc.
Mary: Can you please tell us what you’re working on now and what we have to look forward to from you in the future?
Marge Piercy: I’m giving readings from Made in Detroit at universities, bookstores, festivals, and libraries. Some Knopf arranged, some I did. I have two books in production with PM Press: one is a book of essays with some relevant poems called My Body, My Life. It’s part of their Outspoken Author Series. It’ll be out in the fall. So will the paperback edition of my first and only book of short stories, The Cost of Lunch, Etc. It has an introduction I wrote and two new stories. Since the book came out, I’ve written three new ones but the third is in a collection of Jewish Noir that won’t be published until after Lunch, so it couldn’t be included. I have been writing a lot of poems. I’ve been working on my hagaddah as I do every year before Pesach, adding a couple more poems, taking out some prose. At the moment I’m doing research on Hannah Senesh for an essay I’ve promised for Linda Stein’s traveling art exhibit on women heroes of the Holocaust. We’ve also trying to shovel out from this incredible winter.
Mary: Thank you, Marge. It’s been a pleasure to talk to you today.
Marge: A pleasure always to chat with you.
For writing advice; course syllabi; resources for Women’s Studies, Women’s Visionary Fiction, Women’s Visionary Film, Women’s Visionary Poetry, and Advanced Composition and more information about writing and teaching, you are invited to visit my Educators Page.
By Joan Gefland, Poetrymagazine.com, Spring 2015
After over twenty-five years of annual expeditions to Brazil, Mary Mackey’s exploration of the Amazon River ecosystem, indigenous cultures, environmental destruction, religious rites, samba, and the teeming streets of Rio remains fresh, insightful, and enlightening.
In her new collection of poetry, Travelers With No Ticket Home, Mackey’s keen eyes scan and inner and outer landscape that merges the rational with the mystical, deconstructing everything from life in the favelas, drug wars, the destruction of the rainforest, the omniscient spirit of nature–both healing and destructive–and her own feelings of displacement, all thrown into stark relief against a throbbing tropical sun and the teeming streets of Rio.
Mackey is a stranger in a strange land that is at the same time hauntingly familiar to her. In the opening poem, “Jacob’s Ladder,” she addresses her Kentucky ancestors, musing on how her travels have changed her way of seeing her place in the world:
“what would they have said/if I had spoken to them in Portuguese?/
dearest aunts/sooner or later/
we all stand at the foot of a ladder that’s missing rungs/
speaking in tongues no one can understand”
The use of internal rhyme in “Jacob’s Ladder” and Mackey’s other poems gives us a resonance of the past with the present, and a hint that after all her years (and mind you, all her books–13 novels and 7 poetry collections) she still struggles to understand and be understood.
Mackey has often said that she sees herself as coming from two poetic traditions: one that takes as its subject the physical world, and one that is mystical and even at times hallucinatory. As a result, her poetry is layered and complex, recording real moments from her own life, yet moving beyond those moments to signs, rituals, and visions that unfold from line to line as she tries to integrate personal meaning with glimpses of something more transcendent.
In “Inquisition,” for example, she speaks of her experience of being ill in the jungle:
“in this land god is a poisonous spider/
the size of a shoe a lash of fire ants/
a snake with hinged fangs/
do not ask me how I am/
do not ask me if we will survive/
there are so many ways to die here/
I’ve lost track/”
Mackey repeatedly uses metaphor both as a weapon to expose social injustice and a map to explore undiscovered territory. Take for example “The People of Brazil Discover the Portuguese,” in which she imagines the first contact between indigenous Brazilians and the Europeans who sailed into Rio’s Guayanbara Bay on April 1, 1500:
“what is it that comes out of the east/
like a tower of bones/
white with fluttering wings/
larger than the largest bird we have ever seen/
what new plague/
is the wind blowing toward us/”
In almost all the poems, there is a sense of unease: of great beauty and equally great danger; of displacement and grief for the on-going destruction of the natural world that Mackey treasures mixed with her joy that so much of it still survives. In “The Invisible Forests of Amapá,” she combines a list of animals that are threatened with extinction with a rapturous description of the beauty of the rainforest:
“Crested Capuchin, Nectar Bat/
Red-handed Howling Monkey/
great rivers veiled in steam/
sixty billion trees/
reaching toward a sky so green/
it shines like copper/
As she did in her previous collection Sugar Zone (which won the 2012 PEN Oakland Josephine Miles Award), Mackey sometimes mixes Portuguese with English, giving these poems a musical quality, yet never going to far as to make them incomprehensible. Again she invokes Solange, that ambiguous, mysterious female figure who first appeared in Sugar Zone and who, Mackey has said, may be a muse, a shaman, a former lover, a guide, a spiritual teacher, her own alter-ego, the unquenchable spirit of the rainforest, or all of these combined. The poems about Solange provide some of Travelers With No Ticket Home’s finest and most poetic moments:
From “Onça Pintada/Painted Tiger”:
“trees and vines are tattooed on her body/
when she moves they flow across her thighs/
like the Rio Solimões in flood/
Solange who stalks us by day/
Solange who is everything we have destroyed”
The poems in Travelers With No Ticket Home invoke a Brazil that Mackey knows intimately, yet a land that is, in the end, as completely unknowable as the depths of a human soul. Mackey has said she has no plans to stop her journeys, so I suspect we will be hearing more from her about those unexplored lands which like both south of the equator and within us.
Sunday, March 29, 2015: Mary will hand out the Mary Mackey Short Story Award prizes to winners at the 23rd annual Soul-Making Keats Literary Competition Award Ceremony. TIME: 1:00 pm. PLACE: Koret Auditorium, San Francisco Public Library Main Branch (Lower Level), 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco, CA 94102. This is an Extended Community Arts Outreach Program of the National League of American PEN Woman. Free and open to the public.
Mary: Dorothy Hearst is the author of The Wolf Chronicles, three novels set in Europe in the Paleolithic Era which narrate how the wolf became the dog from the wolf’s point of view. Like all good historical fiction, Dorothy’s novels demanded a great deal of research. Today Dorothy is going to talk to us about how she went from hating research to loving it.
Welcome to People Who Make Books Happen, Dorothy. Could you please start by telling us why you decided to write historical fiction?
Dorothy: I was minding my own business the day the wolves barged into my apartment demanding that I write about them. I was thinking about dogs and how amazing it is that we have such a close relationship with them. I had recently read The Botany of Desire in which Michael Pollan discusses plant evolution and its effect on human evolution. That’s when a little voice in my head said: “I want to write about how the wolf evolved into the dog from the wolf’s point of view.” I wrote about ten pages and realized that I knew almost nothing about wolves and even less about ancient times. That’s when I realized that I was going to have a lot of research.
Mary: Were you good at research? Had you been trained in it?
Dorothy: No, I balked. I’d never been any good at research. I hated it. I thought it was boring and I was no good at it. But wolves can’t type, and they wanted their story told, so I hunkered down and got started.
Mary: What were the most useful resources you came across? In other words, what are some of the best resources for a writer who is researching a historical novel?
Dorothy: The web, of course, is an incredibly valuable research tool. The challenge is vetting the huge amount of information you’ll find online and checking to make sure that what you are reading is true. Libraries are an author’s best friend. Not only do they have books, they often offer access to professional resources like online journal articles that would cost you thousands of dollars to get on your own. Documentaries and Films are another important resource when you’re doing research. The amazing wolf documentaries I watched made it much easier for me to describe wolf life. And then there’s talking to people. One of the best things you can do is talk to really knowledgeable people in writing or over the phone or in person.
Mary: Did you come to like doing research or did you continue to hate it?
Dorothy: To my surprise, I came to love it. It turned out that research was one of the best parts of the writing process. I snow-shoed in Yellowstone, chased huskies in the French Alps, spent hours in wonderful public and university libraries, and walked through a cave where someone had stood 14,000 years ago painting a bison.But what surprised me most was how research shaped my story. It profoundly changed The Wolf Chronicles in several ways.
Dorothy: Well to start with, it changed my wolves. Like many people, I used to think that wolves were vicious animals that fought all the time and were very different from us. Books like Richard Busch’s Wolf Almanac showed me that wolves are actually highly social animals that rarely fight. Then I read up on prehistoric cultures, and learned that our ancestors and wolves lived surprisingly similar lives. This changed all the interactions between wolf and human characters, and made my wolf heroine Kaala and her pack much more complex.
Mary: As you know, I also write historical fiction. I often find that research makes my plots more interesting and more complex. Did you have a similar experience?
Dorothy: Yes, research deepened my story immensely. Early on, I learned about wolf-human coevolution, the theory that wolves and dogs may have greatly influenced our evolution. Then, Barry Lopez’s Of Wolves and Men showed me that wolves have long been emblematic of very different views of nature. This research made Kaala’s story more than the tale of a young wolf on a quest. It grew to be about our own connection to the natural world, and what that connection means for our future.
Mary: What other gifts did research offer you?
Dorothy: One of the most important things research did was give me new characters. While reading up on wolves, I learned that wolves and ravens often play together, so I decided to write just one scene with ravens in it. To my surprise the raven Tlitoo decided he wanted a bigger part in the book and became a major character. While on a trip to Yellowstone to watch wolves, I was awakened by a herd of elk bellowing outside my window. That was when Ranor the Elkryn marched into the story.
Research also gave me new scenes. Two scenes in The Wolf Chronicles are drawn directly from wildlife documentaries: the scene in which Kaala and her wolf lover Azzuen cross the Great Plain in Promise of the Wolves and a sabre-tooth cat scene in Spirit of the Wolves.
Mary: How to you feel about research at this point?
Dorothy: I’m hooked on it. In the end, research enriched The Wolf Chronicles in ways I never could have imagined. I am now a dedicated research devotee.
Mary: Does this mean you’ll be writing more historical novels?
Dorothy: Definitely. In fact, I’m researching one right now.
Dorothy Hearst is the author of Promise of the Wolves, Secrets of the Wolves, and Spirit of the Wolves, a trilogy of novels known as The Wolf Chronicles. Before the wolves barged in her door, demanding that their story be told, she was an acquisitions editor at Jossey-Bass, where she published books for nonprofit, public, and social change leaders. She loves dogs but doesn’t have one, and borrows other people’s whenever she gets the chance. After seven years in New York City and nine years as a San Franciscan, Dorothy now lives in Berkeley, California.
Dear Readers: Join this conversation about People Who Make Books Happen. You are warmly invited to ask Dorothy Hearst questions or leave a comment. This is where the experts hang out. For more writing advice, course syllabi, and tips about writing and teaching, visit my Educators Page.
This Saturday you’re invited to come to the Mythos/Hilgard Gallery to hear Mary Mackey read new poems, plus poems from Travelers With No Ticket Home and Sugar Zone, winner of the 2012 PEN Oakland Josephine Miles Award. Mary will be reading with Native American poet Luke Warm Water. DATE: Saturday March 14, 2015. TIME: 2:30 pm. PLACE: 2725 Hilgard Street at La Vereda Road, Berkeley, CA.
Come to the Spice Monkey Restaurant in Oakland this Wednesday, March 4th, and hear Mary Mackey read her poems in the Pandemonium Press Reading Series “Hot! New Books!.” Mary will be reading with poets Indigo Moor, Jon Sindell, and Wayne Goodman. There will also be a musical performance by guitarist Hao C. Tran. Curated by Leila Rae, publisher/editor Pandemonium Press. TIME: 6:45 pm to 9:00 pm. PLACE: The Loft at the Spice Monkey Restaurant and Bar, 1628 Webster Street, Oakland (at 17th St, 2 1/2 blocks from the 19th Street BART). This event is free and open to the public. Sign up for the open mic at firstname.lastname@example.org.
Mary: Rusty and Ken, welcome to my People Who Make Books Happen interview series. Could you please begin our conversation by telling us why you decided to to call the work that Omnidawn is publishing “Fabulist Fiction,” and why you thought it was necessary to create this new genre? I’m particularly interested in the history of your decision, since you’ve recognized at least five of my novels, including The Year The Horses Came, as fabulist fiction.
Ken: At present, there are basically three major categories of fiction: genre fiction, literary fiction, and a third type which has had no commonly accepted name. This third type has cultural meaning and artistic value, which means it does not fit well into the escapist formula genres, yet it also has non-realistic elements and settings which exclude it from the category of literary fiction. We knew from the start that we wanted to publish this third type of fiction, but what would we call it?
When we began to consider publishing our first ParaSpheres anthology and were seeking a name for the kind of work we wanted to include in it, we remembered that in the fall of 2002 the literary journal Conjunctions (from Bard College, edited by Brad Morrow) devoted issue number 39 (guest edited by Peter Straub) to what they described as “new wave fabulist writers.” The announcements for Conjunctions: 39 described the issue as including stores from a “small group of innovative writers rooted in the genres of science fiction, fantasy, and horror [who] have been simultaneously exploring and erasing the boundaries of those genres by creating fiction of remarkable depth and power.” To honor Brad Morrow and Peter Straub’s work in bringing attention to this type of fiction, I discussed the value of Conjunctions: 39 in both an editor’s note and a longer essay included in ParaSpheres; and we decided to call the stories in ParaSpheres “Fabulist and New Wave Fabulist.”
After ParaSpheres, as we’ve continued to publish this kind of fiction, we’ve decided to use the simpler term “Fabulist Fiction,” which in our minds we think of as embracing all the kinds of stories that might erase as well extend the boundaries of “non-realistic artistic fiction.” Although we consider this kind of fiction to meet the broad definition of the term “literary,” we recognize that it does not meet the established narrative realist definition of literary fiction. By presenting this fiction as neither literary fiction nor genre fiction, but rather as something else altogether, we are hoping to redefine it as a new category.
Mary: Why does this new genre need to exist?
Rusty: To put it simply, literary critics serve as defenders of intellectual and artistic values that are relatively free of the profit motivations. There is definite merit in this. But the conventional standards of literary fiction that are applied in order to eliminate escapist fiction also eliminate much serious, thought-provoking fiction that has artistic value. By establishing Fabulist Fiction as a recognized form, which contains both non-realistic elements and artistic and cultural meaning, we hope to bring the serious works in this genre to the attention of readers and critics and to garner writers of Fabulist Fiction the respect they deserve.
Mary: Could you please give us some examples of works that are Fabulist Fiction?
Ken: There is a long and illustrious tradition of serious works that can be defined as Fabulist Fiction. Some of the most important include: Gulliver’s Travels, Candide, Tristam Shandy, Jacques the Fatalist and His Master, Alice in Wonderland, Gershenzon and Ivanov’s Correspondence from Two Corners, Kafka’s The Castle, Hesse’s Steppenwolf, Woolf’s The Waves, Olaf Stapledon’s Odd John, Gombowicz’s Ferdydurke, and Calvino’s Invisible Cities.
Rusty: Outside the United States, non-realistic work has generally received more recognition. Many non-realistic authors first achieved success outside the U.S. and were later published here. As you may have noticed, all the authors Ken cited above are European, as are Huxley and Orwell. Latin American authors have also received recognition for such work. For example: Gabriel García Márquez who won the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1982 and Jorge Luis Borges who won the French Legion of Honor in 1983. More recently, Yann Martel won England’s Man Booker Prize for Life of Pi. Non-western countries, particularly Japan, also have a long tradition of honoring non-realistic stories.
Outside academia, a number of small presses and journals have published such fiction for decades, including City Lights, Coffee House, FC2, Dalkey Archive, New Directions, and Sun and Moon (now Green Integer). And within the larger commercial publishing world in the United States, established literary authors like Philip Roth can always get their non-realistic works (e.g. The Plot Against America) published successfully.
Ken: In the United States, writers almost always stay in the classification in which their work first succeeds. It is simply easier for book buyers to find all the books by a particular author in one section of the bookstore, and for bookstore clerks to know where a particular author’s work can be found; and work that is an attempt to break out will almost always stay in the section with the author’s original books. Because this creates genre “ghettos,” writers who want to be taken seriously generally avoid starting out in genre fiction, and successful literary writers who write genre fiction are often described as “slumming it.” So writers who want to write artistic work are discouraged from starting out with and later experimenting with a style that will be incorrectly classified as genre fiction.
Rusty: Fortunately, we believe there is increasing interest in what we call “Fabulist Fiction” or fiction that engages the issues we’ve discussed above. We’ve had a Fabulist Fiction Chapbook Contest for a few years (it runs from August 1 to September 30 each year), and we are thrilled by the submissions we receive. There are more universities where such texts are studied and more presses bringing out this kind of work without classifying it as genre fiction. We remain excited by what is possible.
Rusty Morrison and Ken Keegan are senior editors and publishers of Omnidawn Publishing. Rusty Morrison’s “After Urgency” (Tupelo) won The Dorset Prize. “the true keeps calm biding its story” (Ahsahta) won The Sawtooth Prize, the Academy of American Poet’s James Laughlin Award, the Northern California Book Award, and the DiCastagnola Award from Poetry Society of America. “Whethering” (The Center for Literary Publishing, 2004), won the Colorado Prize for Poetry. “Book of the Given” was published by Noemi Press in 2012. She has received the Bogin, Hemley, Winner, and DiCastagnola Awards from PSA. Her poems and/or essays have appeared, or will appear in A Pubic Space, American Poetry Review, Aufgabe, Boston Review, Gulf Coast, Kenyon Review, Lana Turner, Pleiades, Spoon River, The Volta’s Evening Will Come, VOLT and elsewhere. Her poems have been anthologized in the Norton Postmodern American Poetry 2nd Edition, The Arcadia Project: Postmodern Pastoral, Beauty is a Verb, and The Sonnets: Translating and Rewriting Shakespeare and elsewhere. She has been co-publisher of Omnidawn since 2001. Her most recent collection “Beyond the Chainlink” was published by Ahsahta in January 2014. Ken Keegan has a background in theater, graphic design, desktop publishing, and the founding, management of, and consultation for, non-profit organizations.
Dear Readers: Join this conversation about People Who Make Books Happen. You are warmly invited to ask Keen Keegan or Rusty Morrison questions or leave a comment. This is where the experts hang out.
Mary Mackey is a bestselling author who has written six volumes of poetry including Sugar Zone winner of the 2012 PEN Oakland Josephine Miles Award for Literary Excellence. She is also the author of thirteen novels some of which have appeared on The New York Times and San Francisco Chronicle Bestseller Lists. Mackey’s novels have been translated into twelve languages including Japanese, Russian, Hebrew, Greek, and Finnish. Her poems have been praised by Wendell Berry, Jane Hirshfield, Marge Piercy, and Dennis Nurkse for their beauty, precision, originality, and extraordinary range. Garrison Keillor has featured her poetry four times on The Writer’s Almanac. Also a screenwriter, she has sold feature-length scripts to Warner Brothers as well as to independent film companies. Mackey sometimes writes comedy under her pen name “Kate Clemens.” She has a B.A. from Harvard College and a Ph.D. in Comparative Literature from The University of Michigan and is related through her father’s family to Mark Twain. At present, she lives in northern California with her husband Angus Wright. ” In Spring 2014, Marsh Hawk Press will publish a new collection of her poetry entitled Travelers With No Ticket Home.
photo credit: Irene Young
The famously strange and wonderful Viracocha in the SF Mission District is closing; and on Sunday at 8:00 pm I'm going be part of one of the very last events: a panel of 4 poets, each talking about the best poem they've ever read. There will be … see full schedule here...